Community Portal

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Your asnewr was just what I needed. It's made my day!

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{{MakeshiftSitenotice}}__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}

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Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].

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Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

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Other NetHack communities include:

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* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]

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* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

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Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

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Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

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'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Post a new section]'''

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==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

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===What the proposed move means in practise===

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New address: http://nethackwiki.com

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* More Nethack content on your screen.

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** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.

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** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].

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** Wikipedia-style skin.

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* Hosted on the same server as NAO.

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** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins

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* Keep your old account, password, and edits

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** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here

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** No unified login across wikia for new editors

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* Almost all Wikia features keep working

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** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.

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* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community

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** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.

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** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].

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* Respect for you, the Nethack community.

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** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

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===Summary of the problems===

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[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we also have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

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===What we can't do===

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From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

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:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''

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:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

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===Ideas and solutions===

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Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

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* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted

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* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.

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* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?

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* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&t=20101024095706].

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* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?

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* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

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:: See [[Wikihack:Community_Portal#Moving_forward|below for Wikia's side]] of the eyestrain argument.

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===Moving away from Wikia===

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[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

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:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.

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:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

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::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

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::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

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:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

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[[Category:Wikihack]]

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:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

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:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

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Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

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===Outcome of the vote===

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NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

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{| class="wikitable"

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!Option!!Votes!!Percentage

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|-

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|Move||157||72%

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|-

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|Stay||42||19%

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|-

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|Undecided||19||9%

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|-

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|Total||218||100%

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|}

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<!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.

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<poll>

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Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?

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Yes

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No

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Undecided

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</poll>-->

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===Moving forward===

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Quoting staff member Sarah Manley on [[w:c:simpsons:Forum:Moving_Forward]]:

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:... and we want to be clear that all wikiSimpsons community members are welcome to stay and participate both here and on the other wiki site. What is not welcome though is to purposely vandalize the wiki or disrupt the rest of the community, preventing them from participating here. Any user who engages in vandalizing the wiki or harassing other users here will lose admin rights, or be blocked if necessary. ... All wiki wide messages meant to push the community away from participating here will be removed. If active admins decide to leave and the remaining community decides to remove their rights and give them to others, please let me know on my talk page.

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And staff member Sannse:

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: ... all admins on this wiki are welcome to have their rights back, if they are willing to use them for the good of this wiki. That includes not setting notices that are basically an advert for their competitive site.

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This means the move messages will eventually be deleted as "vandalism". (They are by no means wiki-wide.)[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:30, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

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:Sorry to see you moving on guys, and that we didn't see the comments here before now -- I'd have liked to have had a chance to try persuade you to stay, but there are just too many wikis for us to see it all!

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:On the notices: what we are asking is that you do not link to your fork on the main page of this wiki, instead, please point to this discussion or another page that explains the situation. Linking to the fork on this page (or whichever you point to) is just fine. We are also asking that you make clear that this wiki will still be here, so that anyone who wants to stay or adopt it in the future understands that they can do so. We are generally leaving notices in place for about 2 weeks, then removing them to allow the wiki a chance to revive.

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:One correction on the above -- just because the allegation annoys me so. We did ''not'' delete messages for mentioning eye strain, or for any other criticism (other than extreme abusiveness and threats). The allegation quoted above was from an upset contributor who was making up a lot of stuff at the time -- including those "several ophthalmologists" who he claimed told him that having a right side-rail was causing eye problems. That said, there ''were'' reports from people finding the text a strain to read at first, so we tweaked the text colour, size and spacing. That seems to have helped.

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:It's always very sad to see a community moving away from Wikia, but we respect your right to fork of course. I wish you well with your project in the future. -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> ([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]]) 23:06, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

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::Done. The links on the Main Page have been removed, the annoncement now states people may choose to stay here, and the opthtalmologist citation now has a pointer to your rebuttal. For the record: the annoncement is only on a minority of all pages because Wikia have asked for that on some other wiki. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:20, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

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::@Sannse: I'm fine with you removing the move notice from the main page if that's what you want, but I'd like to ask if you could leave it on [[:Category:MakeshiftSitenotice|the other pages it has been placed on]] and wait for actual contributors to remove it from there. I've edited the text of the template to make it clear that anyone may do so if they wish. The way I see it, the template is not just (or even mainly) an advertisement, but rather serves to warn readers that the content is no longer actively maintained. It would seem a disservice to remove it if nobody's actually stepping forward to take over that maintenance role. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:41, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

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:::The point is that no one is going to do that, with those notices in place. The right to fork goes two ways, and this wiki should have every chance to be adopted and revived if that's its future. You wouldn't have accepted a notice like that on articles left by a departing user six months ago, and the same should apply now -- whether it's one person moving on or the whole of the currely active community. I accept that you are moving on, I hope that you will accept that you can't do that and control the wiki you are leaving. -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> ([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]]) 04:51, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

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::::I have no interest in controlling this wiki (and I think that's true for most of the former community, even if I can only speak for myself), but I'd also rather not see people coming here left completely ignorant of what's happened and why the wiki is suddenly so quiet. Would making the notice say something like "''This wiki has been abandoned. If you want to claim it for yourself, contact the Wikia staff. The previous administrators have moved over to [http://nethackwiki.com nethackwiki.com]''." sound acceptable to you? Or would you happen to have a better suggestion yourself? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:20, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

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:::::I think that regular visitors and editors will have seen the messages by now (I've left it a few extra days to allow more time for that). And I'm not asking for no mention anywhere of the split. But a permanent message on all pages is excessive and not going to allow this wiki to recover. I'm OK with a notice saying that this wiki needs new admins, but that should be here on the Community Portal and other appropriate places, not on all articles -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> ([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]]) 06:31, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

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::::::One week ago you said you would leave them for two weeks. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:56, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

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:::::::I meant that we generally leave main page notices for about 2 weeks, but I see my wording was ambiguous, sorry about that. I'll leave them in place for the rest of the two weeks, and look again after that -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> ([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]]) 05:48, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

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:::::::: Thank you! --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:20, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

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Or a little longer... I get distracted easily ;)

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I'll change the template now. I'll also remove the text from the template page: ''"Wikia does not want us to add a banner via CSS that [[w:c:community:User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia’s_New_Look#Terms of Use|moves the content area down]] on all pages. One other wiki wasn't even allowed to [[w:c:dungeons:Forum:We're_Moving|link to their new site on the main page]], but others were."'' - it's not quite accurate and doesn't fit without the current template content. I'll remove the similar notice from the main page, but leave the newsbox as-is. thanks -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> ([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]]) 23:37, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

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== Change name back to Wikihack ==

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Since this wiki and the new one at [http://nethackwiki.com nethackwiki.com] seem doomed to coexist for a while, it seems kind of confusing to call both of them "NetHackWiki". The official name of this wiki still is, and has always been, "Wikihack"; some of the pages and interface messages were just changed to say "NetHackWiki" before the fork. I'd like to hereby propose to revert those changes. Does anyone object? (If there are no objections within about a week or so, I'll assume this proposal has consensus.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

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: I agree, having two wikis with the same name is a bad thing. We shouldn't confuse people into thinking that this wiki and the other one are the same or that one is a identical copy of the other one. If both should develop a distinct profile, they also should have different names. This wiki had been called "WikiHack" from the beginning and "NetHackWiki" is the new one, so the fork should go with the new name and this wiki should get its name back. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 10:33, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

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: Agreed. BTW, the name was Wikihack, with a lower-case h. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:42, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

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Looks like nobody has objected, so I think it should be OK to start implementing the change. Feel free to help if you find anything I've missed. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:30, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

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:Completed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:30, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

Changes: Wikihack:Community Portal

Revision as of 00:57, 10 September 2011

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+Your asnewr was just what I needed. It's made my day!
-{{MakeshiftSitenotice}}__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
-Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].
-Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.
-Other NetHack communities include:
-* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
-* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
-Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]
-Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.
-'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Post a new section]'''
-==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
-{{MakeshiftSitenotice}}
-===What the proposed move means in practise===
-New address: http://nethackwiki.com
-* More Nethack content on your screen.
-** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
-** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
-** Wikipedia-style skin.
-* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
-** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
-* Keep your old account, password, and edits
-** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
-** No unified login across wikia for new editors
-* Almost all Wikia features keep working
-** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
-* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
-** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
-** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
-* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
-** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.
-===Summary of the problems===
-[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we also have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.
-===What we can't do===
-From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:
-:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
-:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''
-===Ideas and solutions===
-Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.
-* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
-* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
-* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
-* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&t=20101024095706].
-* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
-* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''
-:: See [[Wikihack:Community_Portal#Moving_forward|below for Wikia's side]] of the eyestrain argument.
-===Moving away from Wikia===
-[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
-:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
-:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
-::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]</span>☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
-::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
-:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
-[[Category:Wikihack]]
-:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
-:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
-Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
-===Outcome of the vote===
-NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)
-{| class="wikitable"
-!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
-|-
-|Move||157||72%
-|-
-|Stay||42||19%
-|-
-|Undecided||19||9%
-|-
-|Total||218||100%
-|}
-<!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.<br>
-<poll>
-Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
-Yes
-No
-Undecided
-</poll>-->
-===Moving forward===
-Quoting staff member Sarah Manley on [[w:c:simpsons:Forum:Moving_Forward]]:
-:... and we want to be clear that all wikiSimpsons community members are welcome to stay and participate both here and on the other wiki site. What is not welcome though is to purposely vandalize the wiki or disrupt the rest of the community, preventing them from participating here. Any user who engages in vandalizing the wiki or harassing other users here will lose admin rights, or be blocked if necessary. ... All wiki wide messages meant to push the community away from participating here will be removed. If active admins decide to leave and the remaining community decides to remove their rights and give them to others, please let me know on my talk page.
-And staff member Sannse:
-: ... all admins on this wiki are welcome to have their rights back, if they are willing to use them for the good of this wiki. That includes not setting notices that are basically an advert for their competitive site.
-This means the move messages will eventually be deleted as "vandalism". (They are by no means wiki-wide.)[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:30, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
-:Sorry to see you moving on guys, and that we didn't see the comments here before now -- I'd have liked to have had a chance to try persuade you to stay, but there are just too many wikis for us to see it all!
-:On the notices: what we are asking is that you do not link to your fork on the main page of this wiki, instead, please point to this discussion or another page that explains the situation. Linking to the fork on this page (or whichever you point to) is just fine. We are also asking that you make clear that this wiki will still be here, so that anyone who wants to stay or adopt it in the future understands that they can do so. We are generally leaving notices in place for about 2 weeks, then removing them to allow the wiki a chance to revive.
-:One correction on the above -- just because the allegation annoys me so. We did ''not'' delete messages for mentioning eye strain, or for any other criticism (other than extreme abusiveness and threats). The allegation quoted above was from an upset contributor who was making up a lot of stuff at the time -- including those "several ophthalmologists" who he claimed told him that having a right side-rail was causing eye problems. That said, there ''were'' reports from people finding the text a strain to read at first, so we tweaked the text colour, size and spacing. That seems to have helped.
-:It's always very sad to see a community moving away from Wikia, but we respect your right to fork of course. I wish you well with your project in the future. -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> <small>([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]])</small> 23:06, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
-::Done. The links on the Main Page have been removed, the annoncement now states people may choose to stay here, and the opthtalmologist citation now has a pointer to your rebuttal. For the record: the annoncement is only on a minority of all pages because Wikia have asked for that on some other wiki. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:20, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
-::@Sannse: I'm fine with you removing the move notice from the main page if that's what you want, but I'd like to ask if you could leave it on [[:Category:MakeshiftSitenotice|the other pages it has been placed on]] and wait for actual contributors to remove it from there. I've edited the text of the template to make it clear that anyone may do so if they wish. The way I see it, the template is not just (or even mainly) an advertisement, but rather serves to warn readers that the content is no longer actively maintained. It would seem a disservice to remove it if nobody's actually stepping forward to take over that maintenance role. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:41, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
-:::The point is that no one is going to do that, with those notices in place. The right to fork goes two ways, and this wiki should have every chance to be adopted and revived if that's its future. You wouldn't have accepted a notice like that on articles left by a departing user six months ago, and the same should apply now -- whether it's one person moving on or the whole of the currely active community. I accept that you are moving on, I hope that you will accept that you can't do that and control the wiki you are leaving. -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> <small>([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]])</small> 04:51, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
-::::I have no interest in controlling this wiki (and I think that's true for most of the former community, even if I can only speak for myself), but I'd also rather not see people coming here left completely ignorant of what's happened and why the wiki is suddenly so quiet. Would making the notice say something like "''This wiki has been abandoned. If you want to claim it for yourself, contact the Wikia staff. The previous administrators have moved over to [http://nethackwiki.com nethackwiki.com]''." sound acceptable to you? Or would you happen to have a better suggestion yourself? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:20, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
-:::::I think that regular visitors and editors will have seen the messages by now (I've left it a few extra days to allow more time for that). And I'm not asking for no mention anywhere of the split. But a permanent message on all pages is excessive and not going to allow this wiki to recover. I'm OK with a notice saying that this wiki needs new admins, but that should be here on the Community Portal and other appropriate places, not on all articles -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> <small>([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]])</small> 06:31, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
-::::::One week ago you said you would leave them for two weeks. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:56, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
-:::::::I meant that we generally leave main page notices for about 2 weeks, but I see my wording was ambiguous, sorry about that. I'll leave them in place for the rest of the two weeks, and look again after that -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> <small>([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]])</small> 05:48, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
-:::::::: Thank you! --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:20, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
-Or a little longer... I get distracted easily ;)
-I'll change the template now.  I'll also remove the text from the template page: ''"Wikia does not want us to add a banner via CSS that [[w:c:community:User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia’s_New_Look#Terms of Use|moves the content area down]] on all pages. One other wiki wasn't even allowed to [[w:c:dungeons:Forum:We're_Moving|link to their new site on the main page]], but others were."'' - it's not quite accurate and doesn't fit without the current template content. I'll remove the similar notice from the main page, but leave the newsbox as-is.  thanks -- [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]<staff /> <small>([[w:c:community:Forum:Community_Central_Forum|help forum]] | [[w:c:community:Blog:Wikia_Staff_Blog |blog]])</small> 23:37, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
-== Change name back to Wikihack ==
-Since this wiki and the new one at [http://nethackwiki.com nethackwiki.com] seem doomed to coexist for a while, it seems kind of confusing to call both of them "NetHackWiki". The official name of this wiki still is, and has always been, "Wikihack"; some of the pages and interface messages were just changed to say "NetHackWiki" before the fork. I'd like to hereby propose to revert those changes. Does anyone object? (If there are no objections within about a week or so, I'll assume this proposal has consensus.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
-: I agree, having two wikis with the same name is a bad thing. We shouldn't confuse people into thinking that this wiki and the other one are the same or that one is a identical copy of the other one. If both should develop a distinct profile, they also should have different names. This wiki had been called "WikiHack" from the beginning and "NetHackWiki" is the new one, so the fork should go with the new name and this wiki should get its name back. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 10:33, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
-: Agreed. BTW, the name was Wikihack, with a lower-case h. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:42, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
-Looks like nobody has objected, so I think it should be OK to start implementing the change.  Feel free to help if you find anything I've missed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:30, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
-:Completed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:30, December 20, 2010 (UTC)